The first question that we would like to hear from you about is an eligibility requirement. Currently our qualifications state "Ticket price must be $30 or less (between "Free" and $30)."
The average OOB ticket price is $18 to $22.50. Of course if you are working under the Equity Showcase Code, tickets are restricted to $18 or less and Seasonal Code tickets are set at $20 or less. We always try to be as inclusive of the full Off-Off-Broadway community as possible, which includes Equity and Non-Equity productions; Commercial and Not-for-Profit productions. We also wanted to provide for growth within the sector. And $30 is still well under the average ticket price for an Off-Broadway production.
We have had requests this past season to increase the eligible ticket price to $40 or $45.
Should we bump the eligible ticket price up to a higher amount to include those productions who can charge more for their tickets?
Or should we keep the eligible ticket price as is?
And why?
I can see the dilemma that you have. On one hand you don't want to punish people that aren't under an Equity contract and can charge whatever they want. On the other hand you want to make sure the NYIT Awards are for off off broadway productions. I would say up the ticket price. Off broadway still won't be eligible at $45 a ticket.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but is that fair? Some of us can only charge $18. Is it fair to judge us against someone that can charge more than twice that much?
ReplyDeleteAt our company, for every show we have a special night where tickets are $50. But all the rest of the time they are $18. Does that mean we aren't eligible?
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous 2, we do make allowances for benefit performances or other special performances to be determined on an individual basis. Thanks for asking. That's an important question.
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding me. What off-off Broadway show charges $45 per ticket? I think $30 is too high.
ReplyDeleteTicket price does not equal quality. I think we all know that. Spectacle maybe but not quality. If we are all off off broadway then who cares how much the tickets are.
ReplyDeleteI think that NYITA is using ticket price to determine if a show is an indie show or not. I think that is the reason why we are having this conversation.
ReplyDeleteI think $30 is just fine. We charge $25 a ticket. I can imagine that at some point we might increase our prices to $30, but not any time soon. I think for the time being, $30 is the upper part of the scale and maybe you should revisit this in 5 years or after the recession.
ReplyDeleteThank you all so much for the great feedback. Let me ask you this - complicate the conversation a little. What about tiered ticketing - some tickets are $18 and some are $35? Does that make a difference?
ReplyDeleteWhat we saw another company do is have a special seating area for "premium" seats that were above $30. It would be great to be able to have that "special" section and still be eligible for the Innovative Theater Awards. The bulk of the seats would could still be under $30, which is important for many small companies and those who choose to deal with unions.
ReplyDeleteHi Folks. So glad this conversation is happening. Personally I think anything above $35 makes it a very uneven playing field. If a theatre is charging $45 a ticket, then they have a much larger budget to play with and I personally think once you hit that $40 mark its now in the "off" Broadway category. Its simple higher tickets mean higher budget which normally transfers to more resources potentially making it an uneven playing field in terms of production values. Of course just because a show has more money, it doesn't mean the quality is going to be better, but in terms of equality in resources, it defintely gives an edge. I don't think the ticket tier should go higher than $35 for eligibility.
ReplyDeleteAgain..the special section would not effect the general seating price, and would benefit ALL companies!
ReplyDeleteIt would be great to be able to have that "special" section and still be eligible for the Innovative Theater Awards. The bulk of the seats would could still be under $30, which is important for many small companies and those who choose to deal with unions.
What a conundrum! I tend to agree that a higher ticket price means more budget... my main issue would be if you were changing the budgetary requirements which I personally think are already pretty high! (I'd be curious to know what the majority of productions utilizing the NYITA's actually spend on their budgets - I'm guessing most don't go near the $40,000 budget limit.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of people who know that more money doesn't equal better quality - HOWEVER there are a lot of people who can't tell the difference between more money and quality.
As Shay mentioned, we do except benefit performances and donor seating from the ticket price cap.
ReplyDeleteI thought I'd also bring up that some companies register on a show-by-show basis. They may have 1 or 2 productions each season eligible (in ticket price, number of performances, and budget) that they do register. Then they may host a reading which has too few performances or a mainstage which has too big a budget that they do not register for adjudication.
One of the other great things about the Foundation is that fostering community interaction is also part of the Mission. Maybe we, as art-makers, need to talk amongst ourselves about what is driving up one company's ticket price, but not another's.
Producers: If you're still charging the average price, how are you keeping it that way without sacrificing vision/quality?
I think it is super cool that IT Awards eligibility is up for discussion, but I also know that we're never going to find a perfect set of variables that ONLY compares off-off "apples to apples" or includes EVERYTHING fairly (and that, frankly, we have the resources to service.) It would be really special if this went beyond who can get recognized and became about comparing notes, collaborating, and flourishing as a movement.
While I certainly understand where you are coming from with the ticket tiers, I still think even that "special" seating category should be $35 or under. A show under Equity Showcase code can't have any seats over $18, so having shows with a cap of $18 competing with shows with prices at $40 or $45 simply isn't fair.
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous 8, That is a great question (re: production budgets) and one we hope to address more fully in tomorrow's forum. Please make sure to stop by for that discussion too.
ReplyDeleteUnderstood. We also can only charge $18.00 right now too and it's very hard. But the question is, can we charge under $30.00 for general seatig in a regular run (not a special event, which is very different) but still have a section for premium seating and still be eligible??? That is the question we are asking.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if it would be helpful to look at this in terms of criteria for other theatre awards (namely the Drama Desk)? I've always admired the IT Awards for providing a platform for recognizing the work of theatre artists who weren't eligible for bigger awards due to shorter runs, etc. It's likely that a production that can charge $40+ for tickets is eligible for awards like the Drama Desk. It seems like it might be unfair for that same production to be competing with AEA Showcase producers, who are relegated to a maximum of 16 performances at $18/ticket. It's two different ballgames.
ReplyDeleteI have always thought that Off-Off was based on seating capacity, not ticket price; I have no problem "competing" against shows with higher ticket prices, especially if there are both seating capacity and budgetary limits. It's not an award program for Equity showcases, right?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11 & 12,
ReplyDeleteYep. We definitely reviewed all of the qualifications of other awards organizations as a reference.
The seating capacity was a definition of Off-Off-Broadway that we did not feel actually defined Off-Off-Broadway. There have been many Off-Broadway productions that were/are held in 99 seat houses. And what about productions held in churches or schools where there are more than 99 seats or parks where there are no seats or outdoor spaces that have several hundred seats, but the productions are still Indie productions. This is why we chose not to use seating capacity as a qualification, but relied more on ticket price and budget.
And we always try to be as inclusive as we can of the entire community which includes shows produced under Equity Codes and many productions that are not Equity.
Hi. In response to Shay's question regarding ticketing tiers, I think that going over $40 for ticket price would still be too high. Unless its a one night benefit performance or added value ticket that includes merch or food/beverages. If one show is charging $18 and others are charging $40 or more its just not equal.
ReplyDeleteHi guys,
ReplyDeleteI have a question for the IT Awards staff--perhaps this is unique to my particular situation, but my show this summer started at $20 a ticket, we got that crazy NY Times review, and due to demand and the limited audience size, changed the price for the 2nd and 3rd month to $30/ticket. That still fits the IT Awards requirements, but my question is this:
If a show starts out at $30 a ticket, and gets extended, could the price go above $30 for the extension? (assuming the pricing stays the same)
Sorry if this isn't the place to post this query.
Yeah, I agree, the ticket price cap should stay the same. Like so many others we have to keep ours at $18.00 because of union rules. Sucks, but there ya go. Can't compete with the big budget shows. Never have. However, you should be able to allow folks who make a extra donation to your organizaton get front seats. Lot's of theaters do that and it doesn't stop the general ticket price and should not affect IT eligibilty or AEA rules. Can't touch that! Hope that helps others. :)
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